WHAT’S WRONG (AND RIGHT) WITH DOWNTOWN LAS VEGAS
The Operator
Operating a business on East Fremont Street is no easy matter. There have already been failures (Radio City Pizzeria, Insert Coins, Wild, Itsy Bitsy has apparently already changed hands) and competition keeps getting fiercer. So we sat down with someone who was there at the beginning, and knows where a lot of the bodies are buried, as it were. The picture they painted wasn’t a pretty one.
ELV: You’re not optimistic about the future of East Fremont Street?
TO: Let’s just say I’m cautiously pessimistic.
ELV: What’s the problem? In 25 words or less?
TO: They need to create a niche market and sustain it, and the owners and operators and the City haven’t done that.
ELV: Well, it’s more of a destination now than it was five years ago..
TO: It was hot for a couple of years. Lots of publicity, lots of locals. But the locals all came, looked around and left. Then the parking went to $10. The crowds you see here on weekends are tourists. During the week it’s dead and locals have no reason to come here. I mean, what the fuck are people going to Container Park for? They’re not buying anything. They say to themselves: Why should I drive from Tropicana and Tenaya to downtown? And there are no answers except to drink.
ELV: Is there a solution?
TO: When there were 4-5 bars downtown, it seemed to be thriving. Now there are 12 with more coming on-line. It’s like the City and the property owners created a niche, but instead of creating and cultivating a market to sustain that niche, they think that it will take care of itself. What was hot two years ago isn’t so hot now. The Linq cut into the market. The SLS did too. You have to create a reason for people to come here.
ELV: Are you saying locals don’t come downtown as much anymore?
TO: Not as much as they did a year ago. As the competition grew, a lot of us weren’t prepared for it. Some businesses (on East Fremont Street) saw their market shrink by 60% between 2013-2015. Once the locals came down once or twice, they saw what there was to see and were off looking for something new.
ELV: Don’t the Juhl and the Ogden help with supplying a customer base?
TO: They did for a while, then as soon as downtown got “hot” and the economy rebounded, all the renters left, and now they want $300,000 for a closet. Both of them are only 2/3rds full now, but even at full capacity, they don’t provide a critical mass of locals to support all the bars and restaurants.
ELV: To recap: too many bars, not enough locals, no niche marketing…
TO: The real Fremont Street — the one with the canopy — is a real problem too for East Fremont Street. It acts as a negative “Checkpoint Charlie” — a complete barrier to people continuing to stroll east on the street.
ELV: I take it you’re not a fan of Slotzilla?
TO: No.
ELV: Any solutions?
TO: Look, we’re not Portland. This is a city of gamblers. Downtown, the downtown that’s trying to be different from the shit casinos (on Fremont), needs to have an identity. What are we selling? Who is your market? How do we get locals and tourists to embrace it and keep coming back?
ELV: Sounds like you’re more than cautiously pessimistic about East Fremont Street. Sounds like you’ve given up on it?
TO: In a sense I have. You can’t just keep opening bars and restaurants and expect people to find them. I expect a lot more failures if that continues to happen.
ELV: Is there anything you’re optimistic about when it comes to the future of downtown?
TO: Main Street. Between Charleston and The Stratosphere. It’s perfectly positioned between the north end of the Strip and downtown, plus it’s easier for locals to get to and parking won’t be as big of a problem. If downtown has a future with locals, that’s where it’s going to be.
The Craftsmen:
One of the biggest and best revolutions in downtown scene has been the addition of chef-driven restaurants. It all started with EAT, Le Thai and Carson Kitchen in 2012-2014, but since then a dozen new spots have cropped up, generally to rave reviews and various levels of success. To get a feel for what odds they’re up against, and what it’s like to be swimming upstream all the time in a town that celebrates hot slots over a hot lunch, we interviewed a couple of chefs about what it’s like to be in the trenches, day after day, battling for customers, fighting with owners and bucking the odds.
ELV: What do you like about working downtown?
TC #1: I love the community-centric neighborhood of the place. I love that I’m part of that, and in spite of the drawbacks, I still truly believe in (downtown’s) future.
TC #2: Me too. Lots of locals and chefs and bartenders hang out here now. It’s like we’ve created a small local chefs’ community and a place for industry people to go. People who really want to support Vegas as a community, not just a city where people work on the Strip and head back to the suburbs after every shift.
ELV: That’s nice, but are they enough to support what’s going on down there?
TC #1: It’s no secret that’s we still don’t have the people. I mean, it’s dead down here in mid-week. Tuesdays and Wednesdays nobody seems to come.
ELV: Because nobody lives in the area?
TC #1: That’s part of it. What’s needed is better housing. Young people want an urban lifestyle these days. That’s what drives small businesses and small restaurants in urban communities, and we have a very strong lack of that here.
ELV: What about all these “lifestyle” festivals that seem to come downtown all the time — Life is Beautiful and such — don’t they help with the bottom line?
TC #1: It’s a mixed bag. No one usually complains about business on the weekends. Some events can be great for one restaurant and horrible for another one just down the street. But then for some of them, they close off the streets and every place is a ghost town because no one can park and they actually drive away business by advertising how downtown will be closed off to traffic.
ELV: An example….
TC #1: Color Run was huge for us, for lunch and dinner, while (a competitor) down the street had, maybe a dozen people in the place. It’s very hit or miss.
ELV: Is it a challenge to keep your quality high while fighting all these battles and the competition?
TC #2: Look, we have two clienteles down here: tourists and locals. The locals are looking for something different and they really support us. But they want us to keep it fresh and new. The tourists come and maybe think “this is good” but they’re not putting pressure on us to make it better. That’s where you need a steady, loyal clientele and you need to cater to them.
ELV: So, is there downward pressure from owners to compromise on quality in the face of the competition?
TC #2: There has been. (A well-known place) has already burned through two good chefs in less than a year. They’re now buying pre-cut onions and desserts out of the box. This was after getting very favorable reviews and a lot of customers. Personally, I think too many restaurants downtown are all doing the same thing. There’s not enough variety on the menus and it’s going to hurt their businesses in the long run.
ELV: Are you saying all of these chef-driven restaurants could be in trouble?
TC #1: They will be if the chefs don’t get in their restaurants and cook. This isn’t like a big hotel where you can make 125k to sit on your ass and expedite. People want something different and that difference is to personally feel connected to the chef and the restaurant. The tourists don’t care but the locals do.
ELV: You haven’t mentioned parking.
TC #2: Parking is always a problem and customers are always complaining about it.
TC #1: They continue to jack up (the cost of) parking and we get more and more customer complaints about it.
TC #2: Along with the usual “why don’t you clean up the neighborhood” gripes.
ELV (laughing): So why don’t you clean up the neighborhood?
TC #1: We’re small businesses with no marketing budget. It’s all we can do to put out a good product, hope people will come, make payroll and collapse at home at night. It’s an on-going process (cleaning up the neighborhood) and I appreciate that, but right now you have meth-dens right across the street from nice places. There’s a side-street across from my place where the hookers give $5 blow-jobs at all hours. We call it “blowjob alley.”
ELV: Where did you say this was?
The Talent
The Talent is one those hotties that populate the front of the house in restaurants all over town. It’s no surprise that people of all ages like to look at good looking young people. The entire American advertising industry is built on this fact. So is the restaurant business. This is why hostesses are so hot and why so many of the waitrons (of both sexes) look like they could pose on a magazine cover. The “talent” we interviewed is a 20-something lass whose Millennial status belies a veteran of Strip and downtown establishments. She’s was full of sass, smart opinions, and stories on the day we spoke — about everything from how badly Millennials tip to why she prefers the locals’ vibe of the downtown scene to the corporate soullessness of the Strip.
ELV: Can we agree that downtown has been the biggest hit with hipsters?
TT: You could say that.
ELV: So why are Millennials such bad tippers?
TT: They’re spending money on their checks but they’re not spending money on their tips. They’re really cool working with you and they have no problem ordering $20 Fernet Branca shots or running up a $150 bill, and you think you’re winning them over, and then they leave a $2 tip. They want to look cool in front of everybody else and say: “Look at me with their Amish hats and flannel shirts and how cool I am. Still, as bad as they are, they’re not as bad as super old people. With a group of middle-aged women, you’re going to get a 15-18 (% tip) at best, but the older they get the worse they get. So you’re always hoping there will be that one guy in the group who will take care of you.”
ELV: Can we also agree that super old people do NOT make up a big part of your customer base?
TT: (laughing) Yes.
ELV: Can you size up a group from the minute they walk in the door?
TT: Most of the time, yes, but there will always be that one group that really surprises you. You’ll think you’re going to get almost nothing and they leave 50% on the table.
ELV: How are the restaurants around East Fremont Street different?
Carson Kitchen is really the hipster place; Glutton gets a lot of business people, La Comida, the tourists, and Therapy, believe it or not, has become something of a gay hotspot. Gay men are great. They look great, they spend money and they smell nice.
ELV: What don’t you like about working downtown?
TT: Everyone has a attitude. And the bums.
ELV: What’s worse: dealing with attitude or bums.
TT: Bums, because they like to throw things.
ELV: Your worst experience working downtown?
TT: I get off work late on a slow night and grabbed a couple of drinks with some friends. As I’m walking to my car I notice this guy following me. He’s not a bum, in his 30s and actually is dressed pretty well. But I see he’s pretty drunk. So he follows me to my car and I quickly get in and lock the doors. Then I’m watching in horror as I see him come up to the car and see that he’s standing beside my passenger window with his penis out. My first thought was “please don’t pee on my car,” and suddenly he hunches over and I’m eyeball to eyeball with this guy as he’s hunched over shaking his penis, and then he straightens up and starts slapping it on my window.
ELV: What did you do?
TT: I started leaning on my horn, and luckily there was no car in front of me on the street so I just sped off.
ELV: Report it to the cops?
TT: No. (giggling) I think the guy has seen to much porn. But that’s not the worst of it.
ELV: It gets worse than that?
TT: Yeah. Another night, I also went out for drinks after work, and again it’s late, and I stupidly decide to take a shortcut down an alleyway to get back to my car. There’s another guy, again not a bum, but a normal looking guy wearing a hoodie, who apparently was following or watching us. As I cross beside a dumpster, he jumps out and pushes he. I pushed him back but then he puts his forearm into my throat and I drop my purse and he grabs my apron with all my tips in it. Almost $400 that night. That one I did report to the cops and they ended up catching him.
ELV:So you’ve been working downtown less than two years and you’ve been mugged twice?
TT: Yep.
ELV: Is there anything you like about working downtown? I wouldn’t blame you if you said “no”.
TT: I do like working downtown. Let’s put it this way: I like it a lot more than working on the Strip. Being born and raised in Las Vegas. Ten years ago, you didn’t come to downtown to have a nice dinner, you came downtown to buy your crack. And it’s nice to see the city that I grew up in and that I love is doing something nice for locals, locals who don’t want to deal with the traffic and the prices and the hassles of the Strip. Container Park is beautiful, Carson Kitchen and Therapy (ed. note: among others) have amazing food. It’s nice that we can come downtown, and in a city that provides everything for everyone else, it’s great to have a place for locals, and to feel that we have actually have something that is ours.
ELV (winking): Out of the mouth of babes.
I like downtown but it’s too damn far from the burbs. I was interested in living down there but the rents at Juhl and such were way out of line for what you get.
For my money, the best industry hangout neighborhood is chinatown.
“(A well-known place) has already burned through two good chefs in less than a year. They’re now buying pre-cut onions and desserts out of the box”
Th_r_py
Fill in the blanks
“ELV: Where did you say this was?”
Farging fantastic!
TO said: It’s like the City and the property owners created a niche, but instead of creating and cultivating a market to sustain that niche, they think that it will take care of itself. What was hot two years ago isn’t so hot now.
Comment to TO: Maybe you fleshed this out further in your interview, but based on what is quoted here….Take some personal responsibility for your investment and effort, for eff sake. You went Downtown with grandiose hopes and there will be winners and losers. Don’t cry the City and the property owners have let you down. I’m sure Bernie Sanders thanks you for your vote.
TC2 said: The locals are looking for something different and they really support us. But they want us to keep it fresh and new. The tourists come and maybe think “this is good” but they’re not putting pressure on us to make it better.
TO TC2: Please read again what you wrote, you idiot. If locals – regulars who will come back over and over again – want you to keep it fresh, why on God’s fucking earth would you care about what one – off tourists think? Are you stupid?
Fuck you! If you’re trying to run a quality business and you’re discriminating between locals and tourists, you get what you fucking deserve. You should put pressure on yourself every goddamned day to be better no matter who walks in your fucking door. I would love to know who you are so I never, ever open your door, you ignorant, soon to be “do you want fries with that” idiot.
Other than that, cheers.
cmasia
To me, going downtown to eat and drink is like going to The Forbidden Zone from the Planet of The Apes.
ELV responds (to cmasia): Please don’t exaggerate the distinction TC #2 was making between locals and tourists. The comment was made in the context of a larger discussion (that we decided not to include) about the dumbing-down of restaurants like Park on Fremont, F. Pigalle, and Therapy to appeal to tourists rather than locals. For better or worse, tourists comprise a much bigger % of the bottom line and TC #2 was commenting that the OWNERS at those place don’t care about keeping anything above “Cheesecake Factory” quality, even if the chefs do. Or, to put it another way: GIVE THE GUY A F*CKING BREAK! ;-)
To emasia: So, do you feel more like an adult by spewing curse words like a drunken sailor, or are you paid a commission each time you drop an “F” bomb?
Your vitriol is immature and misplaced. There are enough pressures RUNNING a successful restaurant, without having to deal with external factors that distract from success. Hookers, muggers, and exorbitant parking are all detractors to success. I don’t care how good the food is, if I have to go through a war zone to get to and from the establishment.
On a personal note, you should forget the words “fine dining”, and discover the words “anger management”. You’ve greatly embarrassed yourself.
@cmasia: If you think that there is zero distinction between catering to locals, and catering to tourists, then *you* are the fucking idiot here.
You can talk about “being better every day” all you want, but at the end of the day a restaurant is a business with a specific market that they have to identify and cater to or otherwise close their doors.
I am tickled by the responses to my comments on ELV’s interviews. So let me take them one by one.
First, to ELV: My comment to TC2 was based on what you decided to include from the interview. Read his paragraph again, and you’ll see why I wrote what I did.
You have locals who are demanding fresh ideas and quality. Fair enough.
But there is no reason any kitchen can’t keep the locals excited, while making sure you don’t blow off Mable from Kenosha.
I’ll address your comment on what owners are doing to menus in my comment to Dhillbree.
And I will not give TC2 an effing break when he combines garbage like:
1) Locals want it fresh and new
2) Tourists think “this is good” but TC2 feels they are not putting pressure on him
3) That’s where you need a steady, loyal clientele
What bothers me is any restauranteur / chef / businessman who believes they can be all things to all people, and then are disappointed when the very behavior of those people does not match their expectations.
Comment to Dhillbree:
Your comment about the distinction between catering to tourists and catering to locals should have been aimed at TC1 and TC2.
These people decided to get into a business in the following environment:
1) An area dominated by tourists, and not the tourists with the largest disposable incomes
2) An area undergoing a huge – and welcome – transformation, with no true predictability for its future
3) An area still with a fairly high crime rate, and a very small population of full time residents, who also do not have the city’s largest disposable incomes
4) An area still not “trusted” as an entertainment destination by the massive percentage of the Valley’s population
So, TC1 and TC2 got into a business in a market that is a true “moving target” and then are disillusioned when the market speaks. I’m thrilled to see the effort, but to complain how difficult it is to keep innovation and quality, while trying to pay your bills in the environment I describe above, shows naivety, at best.
As a partner in a small, successful restaurant in the Midwest, I understand the necessity to identify your potential audience – as well as your competition – BEFORE you decide to live your dream. Just because guys like TC1 and TC2 may have had the greatest idea in the history of eating, does not mean the entire population will knock your doors down.
Oddly, I’m in agreement with most of what you wrote. I understand it all too well. People like TC1 and TC2 are the ones in denial. If a place that opened based on innovation is now buying “pre-cut onions and desserts out of the box”, there truly are far deeper problems with those establishments.
Comment to Eric: Your political correctness and sensitivity are both very endearing. If my comment was a trigger warning making you feel unsafe and the victim of a micro-aggression, you have my deepest, sincerest, and humblest apologies.
Your argument, however, is ridiculous. You wrote:
“There are enough pressures RUNNING a successful restaurant, without having to deal with external factors that distract from success. Hookers, muggers, and exorbitant parking are all detractors to success.”
Who was there first, for gosh golly sake?
Downtown had muggers and hookers long before guys like TC1 and TC2 decided it was the new Promised Land. They decided to put their money and plant their flag there anyway.
I don’t blame you for not wanting to travel through a war zone, but your comment makes my point showing the naivety of TC1 and TC2.
Finally, to all: I stand by comments. The people interviewed by ELV, with the exception of TT, all had grandiose visions. That’s terrific. But the steady thread of disappointment in their comments, while not surprising, exhibited a lack of understanding of all the variables that can make or break an innovative business. Being surprised by those variables in a market as turbulent as downtown is beyond naïve.
On TO, TC1 and TC2’s behalf, I will say the City has done less than nothing to make the area a more compelling destination.
First, I repeat my question – Does it make you feel like an adult to spew curse words?
Second, I stand by my statement. Running the gauntlet of hookers, druggies and muggers is not conducive to the success of Downtown. The Las Vegas City Government made many promises of “cleaning up the city”, which is why so many businesses took a chance. But, the “cleanup” has failed miserably.
Third, the word is spelled Naivete’.
Good morning, Eric.
1) Yes, especially when I am lectured about it by some pompous ass. I notice you did not chide ELV for his – in my mind – eloquent use of the language in his “Enough Already” rant.
If you’re going to be a pompous ass, I much prefer a consistent one.
2) You’re the naive one, now. I have no issue with those who invested downtown, but anyone who did based on “Government Promises” deserves no sympathy.
How could you even write those two words in the same sentence and keep a straight face?
3) The word is correctly spelled both ways. Based on the little I’ve learned about you, it comes as no surprise you prefer the pompous ass “Frog” version.
Cheers,
cmasia
So, I’m pompous, for taking exception for your overzealous usage of your “big boy words”? HAHAHAHAH! Best laugh I’ve had. today.
Keep fighting the good fight. Justify your existence, while you tat yourself up with Maiori Warrior sleeves, because you need to make a statement about the “Man” you want people to believe you are.
May God bless you. It seems to me that you’re going to need all the help you can get.
ELV it looks like your blog is attracting some real meshuggina mentsh commentators appearing to be snarking at each other rather than keeping on topic.
The downtown revolution was taken on in an improper way. The process of downtown urbanization is organic and must come from the bottom up with sound policy underpinnings. At the end of the day developers must be incentivized to build housing that attracts people to live there and offices that attract people to work there thus attracting retail and food and beverage. This all results in the groundwork for a successful downtown environment. Here is the problem with the idea of downtown urbanization in Las Vegas.
There is not proper density. People live in downtowns to live close to the action. Simply put, in Las Vegas the action is available to anyone with a car. There is no traffic here, as much as you might complain, parking is cheap, the draw to live downtown is zero. Think of every major downtown in America. What is the draw? To live close to work and to live close to your social life. This won’t happen in Las Vegas as long as land prices are commoditized and not a function of location to working and playing. Throwing some money into downtown by building a poorly planned mall made out of boxes and trendy restaurants does not bring people in rather people need to come in and the trendy restaurants, bars, retail, etc will emerge. Again at the end of the day without proper density why would you live downtown?
Now incentivizing developers to build is difficult because downtown does have high land prices but for the wrong reasons. Downtown has high land prices because of the ability to build casinos which in turn attract the low end tourists and vagrants that were spoken of above. People that I certainly do not want to live amongst. Chinatown is and will be for a long time the closest thing besides the strip that Las Vegas has to an urban core. Build up Chinatown!